Unconventional Money Shifts That Creates Unapologetic Wealth with Natalie Bullen- Ep.037

Unconventional Money Shifts That Creates Unapologetic Wealth with Natalie Bullen – Ep.037

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SHOW NOTES

In this episode, guest, Natalie Bullen, founder and creator of Unapologetic Wealth, dives deep into the unconventional money mindset shifts that empower entrepreneurs to create unapologetic wealth. Natalie discusses how she helps people charge more, sell better, and faster to their dream clients, predominantly on Facebook. The conversation highlights the critical role of money mindset in consistent sales, messaging, and overall business success.

Key Topics Covered:

1. The Root of Money Mindset Issues
   • how subconscious beliefs about money affect consistency in sales and business operations.
   • Natalie identifies the most common money mindset block: “Nobody will pay what I want for what I’m good at.”
2. The Starving Artist Mentality
   • Debunking the belief that artistic talents and passions cannot be highly monetized.
   • Comparisons between the perceived value of different forms of art and entertainment.
3. Ancestral and Societal Influences on Money Mindset
   • Natalie shares her family’s history and how generational experiences with money impact current beliefs.
   • Broader discussion on how historical limitations for women and marginalized groups shape present-day money mindsets.
4. Shifting Beliefs and Suspending Doubts
   • Strategies for identifying and challenging inherited beliefs about money and success.
   • Natalie’s approach to easing clients into new beliefs by suspending their existing ones and testing new hypotheses.
5. The Importance of Data and Representation
   • The necessity of finding data points and examples that disprove limiting beliefs.
   • Natalie emphasizes the importance of transparency and representation in fostering belief in new possibilities.
6. Practical Steps to Change Mindset and Business Outcomes
   • Advice on setting realistic goals, tracking activities, and ensuring congruency between beliefs and actions.
   • The significance of consistent sales activities and marketing efforts in achieving business success.

TRANSCRIPT

  All right. Hello everyone. I am super excited for my guest today. So this is someone that I have admittedly stalked online. I see you pop up everywhere because she is all, if I had to describe a phrase for you, it would be always selling. Always selling. You always be selling, right? That’s why I love that compliment.

Yes, because I see you everywhere online. I see you commenting on people’s stuff. You’re always in the conversations. You’re always adding value to people and even challenging. Like I love sometimes too, because I’ll see someone post something and it’s you, How to come in with this like almost challenging aspect in the comments.

And I’m like, look at her. There she goes. Like she’s going to make you think it’s such a good way, right? Like you’re doing it. Not, being rude, but doing it. It’s okay, we need to think a little higher. So I just absolutely love that. So I’m really excited to have you on today. I’m just going to let you quickly introduce yourself and then tell us who you are and What is it that you do in the online space?

And then we’re going to jump into talking about money mindset because no one can ever talk about money mindset enough, right? So yeah, go ahead and introduce yourself. As part of the quickest bio ever. I am Nat Bullen. I own Unapologetic Wealth and my firm does exactly what it says it’s going to do.

I help people charge more, sell better, faster to their dream clients, mostly on Facebook, but really anywhere that they reside online. That’s like the best description. That was so quick and easy. She also does messaging if you couldn’t tell. She’s like quick and direct. Yeah, she also does messaging. That’s Natalie’s USB.

Yes, love it. Okay, so I’m going to jump right in and ask you a question because before we hit record, we were talking about what should we talk about. And we had a couple topics and then, we were talking about how money mindset is the root of anything. Like you will not sell consistently.

You will not show up consistently. You will not create messaging consistently. If you have some subconscious beliefs going on around money. And so I want to just ask you, and this is probably going to be a very loaded question. But what do you think is the number one mindset block problem issue that you see the most?

What do you think is the most potent or most common one that you see? Especially with entrepreneurs. I know, very loaded question.

Nobody will pay for what I’m good at. Or more specifically, nobody will pay what I want. For what I’m good at. So either I’ve got to do something else that I’m not good at and charge a lot of money for that, or I can do what I’m good at and get paid very little, but I can’t have both. I can’t have high pay and do what I’m great at because nobody will pay for that.

That is the number one, especially with creatives, brand designers, web designers, graphic artists, performing artists, specifically, people feel like nobody will pay for this gift that I have. Like the starving artist mentality. Yeah, because, but we do tell people, and we do say art is not worth it. How many people go to museums actively?

Would you pay to go to a museum the same that you would pay to go see Chris Brown? So we tell people, right? Would you pay to go to a museum what you would pay for an NFL game? Think, so there is merit. I get where the stories come from, but I truly believe that God equips us all with a talent.

And that he would not give us an unmonetizable talent that would leave us poverty stricken. I just don’t personally believe that. So I think everyone has a talent that they can charge more for. They just have to step out of the selfish place of my work is good enough. It speaks for itself to, I have to earn the business.

It’s my job to showcase the value in this offer. It wasn’t your job to put me on this podcast. It was my job to show you that I was a thought leader deserving to be on your podcast. There’s a difference. If I didn’t get on your podcast, it’s my fault for not showing you the value, not yours for not picking it up through osmosis.

100%. I love that too, because the fact that you were even talking about would you pay as much for a museum as you would for like a, a concert? Yeah. But it’s, and it’s also funny because that is also art, like singing and creating music. It’s celebrity. It’s celebrity. That’s what people pay for.

And that’s what I was going to say. I’m not a celebrity, so I can’t charge that much. Exactly. That’s exactly where I was going. I said, it’s funny because it both are art, but they’re just seen in a completely different. Completely different light, which is so fascinating, right? It’s so fascinating. Why do you think, why do you think, or like, where do you think that stems from besides, obviously the societal things of saying it’s not, as important, but where do you, where else do you think that stems from?

All of this is ancestral and not to get deep, but 70 years ago, women couldn’t even get a credit card in their own name without their husband. So if you are a black person listening to this and you’re a woman, you identify as a woman, what’s the trajectory with your ancestral line and money?

My mother was a school teacher. She’s still alive, but she’s no longer a school teacher. And my grandfather was a school teacher. He was born in 1925 and his dad, Henry was a school teacher. And Henry was born in 19, 1899. Fun fact, he lived to be 101. So he was alive when I was born in 1988 and Henry’s mother was a school teacher and mother was a slave.

So when you got a lineage that went from, I can’t read, I can’t write, I’m enslaved, and we’re being bought and sold like cattle on a ledger with a dollar amount next to it. To being an indentured servant, to being a very low paid, uneducated worker, to finally being allowed to go to college, but only with other black people, to making 30, 000 at the peak of your career.

How do you wake up one day and say, my gift is worth a hundred thousand? Where’s the trajectory for that person? So it’s very deeply rooted in us. And honestly, even women of other colors, women who weren’t Black still faced a lot of societal pressure that our only value was in childbirth. If you’re not married and you can’t bear children, you have no value.

That is the historical context of women. Most of my clients are breadwinners and either child free or maybe one kid that they’re splitting responsibility equally with a partner. Like I don’t have housewife clients or. It’s just not my demographic. They’re all pushing against this belief that is deeply in rooted, that their primary value as a person is a spouse or their primary value is a mother or their primary value is a servant or to be a boss when you when that’s been fed to you.

I’m fortunate in that I grew up with a single parent who was a bad ass. Annie Fleming is everything. She used to be a Black Panther. My mama fed the homeless. My mom has done it all, baby. She is so phenomenal. So I didn’t even recognize the limitations of my gender until I was already an adult because my mom never put those down on me.

But I think There’s whispers of that. I also think we start businesses for different reasons. In general, women start businesses for freedom to have time with our kids, to make more money because we’ve been chronically underpaid in jobs because of the gender pay gap, but because we don’t really know how to market or how to sell.

We typically will slip into a low earning business, just like we got guided into low paying careers. And if you are listening to this and you don’t believe that women get steered into low paying careers, I want you to introduce me to a white male kindergarten teacher. Oh, I want you to introduce me to a white male CNA, certified nurse assistant, the kind of people who work in nursing homes.

I want you to introduce one to me. I want you, I want to meet them. I want to meet a white male social worker. I want to meet him 22, 24 years old. Find him for me. We get steered into these careers that set us up for a low earning trajectory our whole life. So it’s no wonder that we go into business and replicate it.

Yeah. I came from corporate marketing and I was. I, my very first, I had a marketing degree, four year marketing degree, graduated Sigma Cum Laude. Yep. Top of my class, and my very first full time job out of college made 23, 000 a year. I believe it. 23, 000. And I worked, it was a terrible, horrible company, but I did corporate marketing and I basically too, which is totally illegal now I know this, and they, I’m pretty they got in a ton of.

Trouble for legal, but I would have to. Yeah, I would have to block off like I’d have to clock out and still work while I was there so that they wouldn’t go over hours because I would have so illegal. They’ve gotten a ton of trouble with it. But, me, this naive 22 year old just out of college. So happy to have a job, person and I was born in 89.

So we’re around the same age. But I remember like my paychecks were basically nothing and I worked. I worked so much. I remember I worked all the time, like 24 7. I’d be off work and I’d still be getting called. That sets a precedent. Yeah. And you know what was crazy? I felt like I had to prove myself, too, in that job.

I felt like I had to prove that I was worthy of having this really terrible, crappy job. Yeah. You were fresh out of college. What, how, what power did you feel that you had to go to this company and try to set a new standard and demand how you were going to be treated? Like the whole way that the American dream, I’m, I won’t say anti college I’m maybe college neutral at this point, maybe, but I’m real close to being anti college unless you want to be a physician or an attorney or, there’s some things, but in general no.

For a business degree, no read the book, the personal MBA and save yourself 40, 000, but I get why it happens. It’s just, it’s sad that it happens. And I think the first thing you’ve got to look at whenever it comes to money mindset is whose belief are you carrying? Like whose belief is it? Because it’s usually not ours.

Our first thoughts and beliefs don’t belong to us. They belong to our parents. They belong to our caretakers. They belong to our peers. They belong to our school system. They belong to our church. If you go to church, they’re not our beliefs. You wake up when you’re 18 and you think I’m an adult and you erroneously believe that all the thoughts in your head are original thoughts.

I chose that career. I chose this pay. I chose this city. Almost everything about you was chosen for you before you even recognized it. I would be me and my brothers are so different. My brothers were both born in California. I was born in Alabama. We are so different. Me being the southerner of the family, the way that I think, the way that I behave, the way that I speak, the jobs that I took, the people I’ve dated.

Are completely different than my brothers. Why? Because our environment was different. So when I finally realized, you know what, all black people aren’t poor. All first, all jobs aren’t crappy. I don’t have to wait tables at Cracker Barrel and make 2 and 13 cents an hour. I can do something else.

But that was a novel concept at the time, because in Mobile, where I’m from, the second poorest state in the country, everybody is poor. That was my belief system. And I had a lot of data. Telling me you’re not really wrong, but just because I live here, it doesn’t mean that I personally have to be poor. I have options.

I could move, I could start my own business. I could actively work against the systems in poverty. I can vote out people who are working to keep us in poverty. I have. Some domain, but I would never take that domain or agency unless I had a new belief. So I had to shift my beliefs. And that comes with a rock radical awakening of whose beliefs am I carrying?

If you were in an airport and someone handed you a briefcase and told you to walk through TSA, you’d probably drop it, scream and run for your life. Why? Because it’s not your briefcase. You would not just take that briefcase and waltz around through TSA and go on your trip and open it and use the contents of that briefcase.

You would not. How much would someone have to pay you on a game show to trade luggage with a stranger at the airport? Probably a hell of a lot. You want your luggage. You don’t want nobody else’s luggage with you on your trip because you don’t know if their standards, their preferences, their cleanliness matches yours.

That’s what it’s like in life wheeling around somebody else’s money mindset and pricing beliefs and business beliefs. You are literally taking a random suitcase off of the conveyor belt at the airport and hoping when you get back to your hotel, you got something that fits. That’s an amazing analogy.

And then on top of that I’ll just go straight into when we go into business. So we, let’s say we start businesses with all these mindsets. Then we go into business and let’s say we hire a coach and then we start bringing on the mindsets of the coach. And a lot of the times I see two things.

A lot of the times is one, their mindsets may be exactly how we want to think, but there is no congruency, right? There’s no congruency with it. Like it just doesn’t match. Then and then there’s resistance, right? Like we’re like thinking like, man, I really want to think like them. I really want to take the action that they’re telling me to take, but there’s a, there’s an incongruence.

Or we will, that’s one thing, or on the flip side, we will hire this coach and then we will completely shut down. And. And completely shut down because again, there’s an incongruence, but there’s no trying there. It’s more of like you shut down because you’re starting to realize oh, I have all of these like negative thoughts, but I, if I let go of them, I have to completely change my entire world and changing is absolutely terrifying.

Scary. Yeah. Yes. I think I’ve seen that so many times that I’ve even. I’ve even witnessed that myself. I’ve seen that. It’s common. I think this is why I usually ease my clients in, and I tell them to suspend their beliefs. We have to go back to my airplane analogy, which I just came up with. That’s amazing.

Let me just say, I’m going to keep that. But, you’re at the airport, and you have picked up strangers luggage off the carousel, and you’re walking around. That’s If the airport attendant comes, Oh no. You’re you can’t take that luggage. That luggage is not yours. You’re not just going to hand it back.

You’re going to say, Oh, where’s my luggage? Because you’re not leaving the airport with nothing. You came there with something. You’re not leaving with nothing. And most people would rather leave with someone else’s bag than no bag at all. So we can’t just tell people that their beliefs are bad and to strip them of their beliefs because what are they going to replace it with?

You have to believe something. So what I do is a system to tell people to suspend their beliefs. If your child has ever been suspended at school, that doesn’t mean they can never come back. That just means we need a little pause. Okay, we just need a little break. Okay. They need to synthesize. You need to synthesize.

They need some space from the kids. It’s cool. Okay. We need to suspend the belief. And so if I have a client, they’ll tell me, Natalie, that’s easy for you to say. It’s easy for you to go up on your prices. I’m struggling out here. I can hardly sell the 5, 000 thing I have now, and you’re telling me that my offer should be 10, 000 to 15, 000.

I’m not you. I can’t sell at that price. Great. We’ve made some breakthrough. You’re not me. What do I have that you don’t let’s listen out. Let’s get real specific. You’re outgoing and enthusiastic and you’re good on video. Okay. Would you like to get better on video so that you can charge the prices that I charge?

No, it’s not just that you’re like super confident and you’ve done all this mindset work, right? Yeah. Where are you feeling? You know how you get confident you do the thing. So it sounds like you’re telling me you’re going to do some videos so that you start feeling more confident.

Hell I get granular with people. What would you do if you suspended the belief? You just paused it for three days that nobody on Facebook has any money. If you didn’t believe or disbelieve that, what would you do tomorrow? I’d probably post more. Got you. So how about for just three days? We pretend like that belief is amorphous.

We’re not sure if it’s right or not. So we’re just going to behave as though we are doing scientific data. We’re going to make it a hypothesis and we’re going to test the hypothesis. That seems to work better for people than coming in guns blazing. Everything you believe is wrong and you need to start believing all these things.

I want you to believe because I’m the coach and I’m right. And I’m God. I actually don’t like that. I don’t like being worshipped. I don’t like being an idol and I don’t like people blindly taking my advice without any nuance. This is what I tell people. My Facebook page is not coaching. I cannot coach you when we’re not in a reciprocal relationship.

I cannot advise you when I don’t know your situation. At best, it’s information and encouragement. I tell people do not go changing your whole business over anybody’s free Facebook posts, mine included, because that’s how you get this dissonance. And a lot of people who are raising their prices right now, because some coach blindly told them to, they don’t have the brand or the confidence or the awareness or the expertise to pull it off.

So even if they could sell it at that price, they would soon have seller’s remorse, which is a very real thing. Yes. We’ve all had it. We’ve all sold something and we regretted it. We regretted it when we delivered it. We regretted it when we saw how little the strike payment was after fees. We regretted it.

I try to get people to avoid that, but I find that the coach issue, the biggest issue too is that a lot of people get in coaching when they need therapy and a lot of coaches are doing therapeutic stuff. That they shouldn’t, and taking on people who have borderline personality disorder and, just things that absolutely cannot be addressed in coaching.

I think we’ve also bastardized the word coaching where people don’t know if they’re getting a consultant or an advisor or strategist or a home girl. I had a friend who hired a coach who agreed with everything she told her, and I said, you pay 20, 000 for a friend. If your coach agrees with every single idea you have, you are in a sorority.

You paid for a friend. You’re in a non hazing sorority. They should just call y’all Gamma Phi Gamma and put you in a little outfit and take some class pictures. I just couldn’t believe it. But yeah, but they do it to try to overcorrect from the, my clients have a shock working with me. So let me try the soft approach, but I want my clients to get results.

And they’re not going to get results until they have a new belief system. And it takes years to, Fully firmly step into a new belief system. Your best bet is to suspend your beliefs. If you can’t do that, you need to find data that disproves your beliefs. So one of the beliefs that I had from an early age as a black person in a mostly black city full of poor people was that all black people are poor read the U S census.

It doesn’t tell you any different. So I made it my mission to go out and meet rich black people. First, I started reading about them in encyclopedias. I read about Mansa Musa, who was an African King who was so rich that he went on a shopping spree and destabilized an entire economy. He went to a city and bought everything in the city.

He bought everything at every market. Imagine someone came to your city and bought everything in every target and every Walmart and every Lowe’s and every home Depot and every food establishment, every store in every street in your entire city. What would happen to your city? Your city would collapse.

That’s how rich man Samusa was. Wow. Wow. So I started researching. If I didn’t know anybody personally, let me find some rich people in the past. Let me look at Oprah. I don’t particularly care for Oprah all that much, but she was a billionaire when I was a child. So let me look at the story. How did Oprah make this money?

I started looking for people to dispel my myth. Because that belief doesn’t make sense anymore. Now that I have data that disproves it and all it takes is one data point. That’s why I’m so transparent about the money that I make, because I might be that one data point for somebody. I might be the one person they go, you know what?

I don’t know how Nat’s doing it, but Natalie is doing it. And if Natalie is doing it, maybe I can do it too. Maybe my belief is wrong and maybe this is possible for me. I love that. And then, you know what I see though? Like I’m going to, I’m going to poke the bear a little bit. What I see sometimes with that is that particularly with my clients too, is where, when we dispute it, like I give them evidence, they’ll say not, that’s not true for me.

That’s true for them, but it’s not true for me. I love when people say that because that’s going to go down the list of what do they have that you don’t, right? Because this is a fixable problem. If I’m going to the Olympics in Paris and if I watch the Olympians and go, man, they are fit.

That’s crazy how they can do that. And somebody goes and I go, man, I could never do that. I could, if I devoted my life to being an Olympian, I absolutely could. Now, can I do every sport? No, but there’s like a hundred sports at the Olympics. If I devoted my life to one of them, I could be good enough. The truth is I just haven’t.

And sometimes it’s important for clients to realize they haven’t gotten the result they’re looking for because they haven’t put in the work. So I didn’t get married until I was 33. And a lot of people in their twenties lament when they turn 30, if they’re unmarried, I was not one of those people. I had a friend call me and go, girl, aren’t you sad that you’re not married?

I said, no, I wasn’t trying to be married. She said, what do you mean? I said, the actions I took in my twenties didn’t lead to marriage. I wasn’t trying to get married. I didn’t do anything that would make me a married person. I didn’t get engaged. I dated losers. I party. I had a lot of fun. I made a lot of friends.

I can’t be casual. There was nothing about me that would have resulted in a marriage in my twenties because of the way that I live. So how can I be mad that I didn’t achieve a result that I didn’t put in the work for? I didn’t have the inputs to create that output. So a lot of people want the output.

They want the brand and the money and the popularity, but they’re not doing anything in the input of this machine. They’re not marketing. They’re not selling. They’re not going live. They’re not picking posts, they’re not running SEO, they’re not doing ads. They’re not doing mindset work, they don’t have a coach, they don’t have a podcast, they don’t have a blog, they don’t have a book, they don’t have a lead magnet, they don’t have a funnel, they don’t have any systems, they don’t have any team.

How could your output be a successful business? And there’s no input at all. I don’t get it. It’s so interesting to me. It’s so I’ll call my people to the carpet, the inputs that you are putting into your machine will never output what I have. So if you want what I have, which I think is a shitty goal, I think nobody’s goal should be to have, but if your goal is to have a successful business and you deem that I have a successful business.

You’re going to have to change your inputs. And if we’re honest with ourselves. That’s where the bottleneck is. It’s normally us, right? I’m very heavy right now. I’m about 40 pounds heavier than my previous heavy, right? But I’m not mad. Why? Because I’ve done very little in a consistent basis to get excess weight off of my body.

Very little. I’m sedentary. I eat too much. I eat too late and I eat crap. So how could I possibly have a thin It doesn’t make sense, but a lot of people are like, you know what I’m trying and I’m doing better a lot of that is platitudes. Our brain tells us that to keep us from feeling down. If you actually start tracking your activity, you could get more honest with yourself.

When I do a food journal, I lose weight because I don’t want to write down that I ate two bags of M and M’s. That’s just the truth. I do better when I journal. So anyone listening to this, maybe start keeping a journal of what are the activities, the inputs that I’m doing to create more wealth in my business, to create more revenue in my business, to create more sales in my business.

Because if you’re going days without sales activity, you won’t stay in business. And it’s not a magic formula that makes you stay in business. It’s literally earning enough money to support yourself and cover all your bills. That’s it. Keep earning, keep out earning your expenses and you can stay in business.

People who go out of business don’t out earn their expenses and eventually they can’t afford the expenses anymore and they go get a job. And getting a job is fine, but not if that’s not what you want and because you just didn’t give your business your all. Again, I serve breadwinners. I’m the breadwinner.

I don’t give myself the luxury of just deciding I’m not going to sell. Yeah. But it’s hard if you don’t have the belief system for sure. You know what’s interesting too with this conversation is that you were talking about, just out earn your expenses. Something I see too which is a form of self sabotage that I think 100 percent relates to this not me type mindset of I can’t make that money, is I cannot tell you how many entrepreneurs I have talked to who their expenses are Astronomical like spending and, buying software and buying programs and working with like coaches, they literally have no business at that level that they’re at in their business, right?

To me at that time, those expenses. Yeah, exactly. And I had a friend I was talking to a couple months ago, and she told me that she was spending, it’s just her, she is a solo entrepreneur, okay, and she’s a coach, and she’s I spend about 17, 000 a month on coaches, on software that she was using, and I’m like, That includes her pay, right?

No, that’s just her. What she’s spending. She doesn’t even, she wasn’t even like consistently paying herself. ’cause she got into a lot of stuff. She was doing her taxes. Oh, all this stuff. See, I see that a lot. I see that a lot. And I was like, part of it’s self-sabotage. Part of it is the online coaching. I don’t want to use the word scam, but it’s something bad ecosystem.

It’s the online coaching ecosystem. So the worst thing that we do is convince everybody that everyone needs a high ticket coach. Here’s the thing. There are free coaching programs out there for beginners. If your business is new, get in NASDAQ circles, check out hello, Alice, look at the Tory Burch foundation.

They do free workshops all the time, get the free stuff. But what I find is. People don’t want the free stuff. They want the popularity. They want the celebrity. They want the high ticket stuff because they think it makes them bigger, wiser, more successful to be able to say, this person is my coach. I’ve gotten turned out by people who’ve paid.

The Russell Bronson’s of the world, they’re paying 10, 000 a month for a one 15 minute call with someone on his team, not even him brand new in business. And I’m like, you’re, you could have paid me a third of that and gotten one on one calls for months that would have actually moved your business forward.

But I’m not famous enough. I’m not white enough. See, so that, that. Is part of it is on the consumer because common sense would tell you that a brand new business that runs a service does not need 17, 000 worth of expenses. But on the other hand, I think people who don’t feel safe with money have to give it away.

So you’ll see it happen a lot. You’ll see people who made the money and then they’re freaked out about it. And they give it all away. So they have to hire a coach. They can’t sit still with their money. It burns a hole in their pocket. And what really is happening is their subconscious is saying I’m out of equilibrium.

My, my norm is 5, 000 a month. That’s normal for me. And you’ve made 50, 000 and now we have this big dissonance, incongruence between what I have. Statistically and what I have now, you have to bring those into equilibrium. So you either have to raise your upper limit to accept 50, 000 as your normal, or you’ve got to lower your bank balance down to the 5, 000 that your brain will accept.

Those are the only two choices you have. Most people don’t know how to do choice one. So they spend it all down. And because women don’t often have the financial literacy skills, because we, even though we are 40 percent of 40 percent of black women are the breadwinner in their households, 25 percent of white women are.

So even though there’s a one in four or a two in five chance. That if you are born right now, you will end up being the breadwinner. We aren’t getting financial literacy lessons at that rate, right? We’re still getting girls ink for confidence in schools, not financial literacy. So when we make the money, we don’t know to set money aside for taxes or to set money aside for retirement, to pay ourselves.

If she had 17, 000 a month, she should have been on payroll. She should probably have been an S Corp and been paying herself like clockwork. Nope. She didn’t even know what an S Corp was. I was talking to her and I was like, do you not pay yourself? It’s the literacy. I said, gusto? And guess what?

Her coach is never going to tell her that. Because her coach would not want to empower her financially because if the coach lets her figure out what she should be doing with her money, then the coach is going to stop getting paid because she’s going to wake up one day and go, why am I paying 5, 000 a month for coaching?

I should be putting that into my own IRA. I should be putting that into a brokerage account. I should be building wealth for my children. I should have 529 plans. For my kids, I should have a cash cushion of six figures. I can’t afford to keep paying this woman. So it’s in everybody’s best. It’s almost buying a home.

This will be controversial, but I’m not big on home ownership. However, if you go to buy a home, everyone is in cahoots to make this deal go through. Why the realtor who is selling your home gets 3%. It’s so if your house is worth. 300, 000 sales for 300, 000. They’ll get 9, 000 the realtor who is on the other side.

So the one, the broker. So the one selling your home has 9, 000 on the line. The one that is representing the buyer also has 9, 000 on the line because they’re both going to get 3 percent the home appraiser. They have money on the line too, because if they don’t appraise homes, For the amount of the bid, no one’s going to pick that appraiser anymore, right?

So unless there’s something egregiously wrong with your home, the house appraiser is going to, he’s going to confer with the list price. This is how we had a housing bubble. You say my house is, I paid 200k. Your realtor goes, no, it’s worth 250. There’s a comp in the area two miles away that sold for 250.

You don’t believe your house is worth 250, but they listed it 250. Somebody bids it 250. The home appraiser. It says, yes, it’s absolutely worth two 50. Now everybody has this number, but what’s the house actually worth? There’s an ecosystem that makes sure that deal gets done because the home appraiser gets told what the bid on the table is.

So they anchor to that number from the beginning had to be something really wrong with that house for them to come in below that number and risk their pay. Everyone has. And a reason for the deal to go through. Unfortunately, that’s how some of these coaching circles have began and you get. People who, oh no, the mindset coach.

Oh, the more you charge, the more empowered you are. Then the business coach is telling them, raise their prices. Raise their prices, and then the sales coach is saying, you can sell anything you want. So these people have an ecosystem where they’re paying two or three coaches and none of them are telling them the truth.

You don’t have the expertise, you don’t have the brand, you don’t have the know-how you need to charge a beta price and you need to close five clients and you need to deliver. The hell out of this offer. You need to get testimonials, social proof, and work out the kinks before you ever start thinking about making this a high ticket offer.

Your coaches are telling you to be a scammer and you are going to burn your reputation to the ground and run out of money if you keep going the way you’re going, but then I sound like a hater out on the street. that came out, right? But I 100 percent agree with you. And I’ll even say how, not only is it so damaging for the person who is invested in these coaches, it’s damaging for the people who have invested in this offer that they’re selling at this high ticket.

And they’re not actually delivering an expert value because they’re like, their nervous system is so shocked because this coach, these coaches are out here saying, raise your prices. Right and sell whatever, just put something together, go out and sell it. And then let’s say they do have someone come in and buy it.

That person who bought it, it’s not going to get the experience that they deserve for the price that they paid. And then the person, it’s going to continue to cycle all over. Then that person. That client might complain to the, the person they bought from. And then all of a sudden it is, they’re like, yes, the I knew I couldn’t charge this high price.

I knew it wasn’t worth it. And they’re just just that whole cycle just goes in a circle and goes in a circle. And I see that. I see that all the time. I know you and I have been Facebook friends for, a couple of years. Yeah. We’ve been Facebook friends for a couple of years. And we talk about a lot of the same things with, cause I’m a messaging strategist as well.

And you talk about messaging and you talk a lot about sales. And I think like probably what like 2020, 2021. It was this whole push for everyone to sell high ticket. It was like, sell the high ticket offer. Sell the high ticket offer. Don’t get me wrong. I love high ticket. I prefer high ticket. However, I don’t think it’s for everybody.

I think it’s for everybody. And my first offer was not, I had 13 one on one coaching clients at a time. on top of a job. I’m real crazy. And I charged all those people the same price. I charged them either 2, 500 for three months of weekly one on one coaching, or they could pay a thousand a month. So it was either a thousand a month or one time 2, 500.

I coached 13 people at that price. Before I even thought about let’s change the price. Let’s change the scope. Let’s do whatever. And I realized that weekly was wearing me out. So I gave myself a CEO week. So the last week of the month, I don’t have meetings or calls. So the price didn’t change, but the number of calls changed.

And then eventually the price changed. But by then I had dozens of people who had results, this whole sell it one time at this price and then move the price up, you don’t have the data in the beginning of your business, your entire goal is to collect data. That’s the entire objective.

Making money is great. And yes, I want you to get data from paid clients. Does that have to be high pay? No, I just need you to pay something. It does not have to be a lot of money. But I find that people go into this high ticket thing and go you know what? If they’re charging 10, 000, I can charge 10, 000.

If you don’t have the brand trust, brand recognition, you can’t. Why can Bentley charge more than Kia? Because their brand is premium and they’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in superior craftsmanship ads. Billboards, luxurious dealerships. Have you been in a BMW dealership? They give you expensive chocolate and coffee like it’s the middle of France or something.

They’ve invested money and time and energy. They’ve hired a brand strategist. So if you have no brand and no money, no client experience, no social proof, one or two past clients, what you think that people are just going to throw 10, at you? Would you buy the thing you’re selling at the price you’re selling for?

I feel like there’s such an unusual thing where people are like, just slap a price on it. And send it out the door. I’m not going to tell people to lower their prices. If you’re already selling heights ticket, just make sure your client experience matches the price point, but to tell a brand new person that’s never served a client that they should start off day one with whatever arbitrary line of high ticket is.

Weird. You should charge enough to cover your expenses. Absolutely. But you need to get some clients in the door. And I have found that charging a little bit below what maybe people expect the price to be is great for something. The first time I’m running the very first cohort of high ticket hit list.

It’s my social selling and prospecting program. I could have charged more for it. I could have positioned it as a social seller school and only sold it to seven and eight figure businesses who have a whole team of appointment setters already and just need me to train them. But I wanted to get some grassroots people in some real feedback and I wanted to charge a price that would make sense for a person with a tiny team.

So yes, I could have charged 20, 000 for this and I could have sold it to big corporations like IBM so that they don’t make stupid mistakes when their social seller responds to people on Instagram. But I didn’t start there because I don’t have the data yet. You get the data, you refine, you grow, you refresh.

Cause anytime you do something the first time it’s an MVP. And I think that the hubris that people have, Hey, I’m a web designer. I’ve done two websites. It deserves to be 20, 000. You have not worked the kinks out of your website process. If you’ve only done it for two people, you still have lapses. You have communication gaps.

Maybe you don’t like the tech. It was supposed to take three months. It took six months, right? Every, the first time you sell something, it’s not going to go the way you had. Hope you need to build in a buffer week. You need to over communicate, even the welcome emails. When people buy your stuff, did they get an email that says, Hey, thanks for buying my stuff.

Here are your next steps. Or did they just get a receipt? You got to build all that stuff out. It’s not going to be as smooth as you think. So I would rather charge less and not have the pressure of, Oh my God, this has to be perfect because I just got somebody’s last 10, 000. I’d rather charge 3, 500 and have some buffer for some grace and people go, Oh she said it would take eight weeks and it took nine.

It’s going to have a riot over that. Things are going to be fine. You debrief with your team. You come and you collaborate. You talk through what you shifted and then you go out and you raise the price. But this whole just high ticket because or charge your worth, your personal self worth is invaluable.

It’s priceless. You cannot charge a dollar amount of. Service for your own personal worth. And until you detach yourself worth from your net worth, you will always be a slave to your pricing. You will never feel good enough. It’ll never be enough money. Your self worth, who you are has to remain steady, regardless of what is, or is not in your bank account.

And until you get to that point, you’ll always be chasing a pricing trend and flip flopping from coach to coach and chasing different avatars and doing all this weird stuff that we see people do online. They’ll do anything, but sell anything, sell. They’ll change their messaging. They’ll change their website.

They’ll color their hair. They’ll start a podcast. They’ll buy Kajabi. They’ll build their own website. They’ll thread their eyebrows. They’ll send out newsletters. They’ll hang out on LinkedIn. They’ll start a blog. They’ll do everything, but make a damn offer. So if you have a price that is not in alignment with your money mindset, you won’t be able to sell it anyway, because you won’t get it out your mouth.

When I have clients who listen to these charlatans and come and go, Natalie, somebody told me today, my offer should be 50, 000. And I believe great. Let’s do a mock sales call. Let’s just. Role play a sales call. And I want you to pitch me this 50, 000 offer. They can’t do it. I’ve never had one that could actually get through the pitch and say the dollar amount without making it a question.

I have never had somebody who was selling two or four or 5, 000 pop up and sell 50 like it wasn’t nothing because that’s. Way too far out of where your current span of expertise is. And even if you do have an offer worth 50 K, you don’t have an audience that’ll pay you 50 K if you’ve been selling 5, 000 stuff.

So even if the offer is worth it, you’re still going to have to cultivate an audience of buyers at that new price point. That’s not something you do overnight. And I think the most frustrating part of business is people thinking somehow that you did all of this overnight. Yeah, I get that all the time.

Yeah, I’ve been an entrepreneur for, let’s see, almost eight years now. It’s April. So it’d be eight years in April. And I cannot even tell you how many times I’ve had someone be like it was easy for you. You just, I was like no. It’s it took me a really long time to get here.

And I will 100 percent That’s their money mindset. People who have billionaires. They hate Mark Cuban and they’ll go that’s easy for Mark Cuban to do. And I go, what do you think Mark Cuban’s first business venture was? What’s the first thing he did that made him money? Most people don’t know. Mark actually sold, Mark sold garbage bags door to door.

I did not know that. Yeah. That’s awesome. So like we, we make these assumptions because he’s a billionaire, right? So he must’ve trampled on the poor sweatshop in China where people were like jumping off the bridge cause they were exhausted. He has to have manipulated the market and some type of big scheme and insider trading.

It was a criminal. Maybe it was part of The mob and his mob family money is trickled down through the generations. We’ve built up these fantastic stories about why this guy can’t be honest. He can’t possibly have honestly earned that money on his own fortitude or ambition. He must have lied or cheated or stolen at some point.

Why do we believe that? And I hate to say it, but I know there will come a day where people online will turn on me because I am richer than it allows them to be comfortable. You it’s not even, I’ll even pull this in. I know we have to go here in just a second. I’m going to pull this in too. Even like with outside of no, I guess it does have to do with money too.

Are you on Tik Tok at all? Do you ever keep up with Tik Tok by any chance? Okay. This just happened a couple weeks ago. I think it was in February. This creator on there, her name is Risa Tisa. And she told this story about this guy she shouldn’t have married or something. It was called like, who the F did I marry?

And she went through this whole thing. And long story short, everybody was cheering her on. And in this story, I watched it. I was enthralled. I was like, this is the best story. Obviously I was looking at it from a marketing perspective, but I was on actually that that trip while I was watching it, we were on a trip.

We were at the, we were on vacation and we were driving back. We had a four hour drive. So I watched it during my, in the car or whatever. I wasn’t driving. And anyways yeah. I was like making sure I accidentally hit the mute button on my mic. I was like, wait a minute. Okay. But anyways, I was looking at it from a marketing perspective because I love to look at the language and I was watching how she was doing.

And she obviously didn’t know what she was doing. She was doing a subconscious, but however, long story short in this story, she was talking about how the guy that she married had promised her this BMW had promised her this trip or whatever. And then her thing blew up. It went viral. And everybody, of course, was like supporting her when all this happened.

But then all of a sudden. All of a sudden, BMW reached out and was like, we would love to be able to give you this car. Delta said, we’d love to be able to take you on this trip. And the amount of people who just were like, she’s just doing all of this for the free stuff. Like blah, blah, blah. Who were just.

Totally. People turned on her as soon as they saw that she was getting something out of it. Then all of a sudden it was, is this real? Is it true? I did see that fall out from her. And then TikTok as well, they have the creator program to where you get money per views. She was not part of the creator program when all these videos went viral.

And then she since became part of it because she now has like over 2 or 3 million views. But the amount of TikToks I saw of creators being like, let’s break down how much money Trashy Risa Tisa made because she makes poor decisions and she’s just this like horrible person. And look, she made this much money for the creator fund when she was actually not a part of the creator fund.

When all, even if she was there, don’t be mad. You got out marketed. If the whole premise of tick tock is holding people’s attention, which it is, whether anybody wants to admit it or not. Then isn’t she clever for holding people’s attention over 50 videos about how low down this man was. Cause I’ve been dogged out by men and I ain’t make a red cent.

So I’m going to give her a hand clap of applause cause I didn’t get trips or cars or any of that, and nobody gave a damn and I didn’t make any money from it. I wish I could make some money off of the terrible experiences I have had in my life until I met my husband. Okay. Yeah, I was seeing these videos and I was like, I can not believe like that this is happening.

I could, because I’ve seen it happen before, but I was like, I cannot believe that this like genuine, just everyday, beautiful, like caring woman is just decided to share her story. And then all of a sudden, all these people were like she would have been like, And even to the point where she went on like the morning show or something and was talking about it and this other huge YouTube creator basically made this whole YouTube video being like she’s fat and overweight and no wonder she pulled in this loser and I don’t know who the, I don’t follow anyone on YouTube but it was like This is very large.

Meanwhile, they are making money from the views and the clicks on that YouTube video. So it’s like the jokes just write themselves. The hypocrisy, you are getting paid, making fun of this woman. Who had a very genuine decision. I’m telling you that’s the only bad thing about the online space is that eventually, right now people cheer me on.

Oh, go underdog. Yeah, Natalie, you bet your goal. You doing great. We love it. But there’s murmurings, right? I’ve seen screenshots about me, about how it’s tacky to try to sell at the end of the quarter because you’re close to a revenue goal or this and that. And so I sent one of my spies into the group and I said, why don’t you ask them how close they were to their revenue goal last quarter?

Did they hit their goal? They’re literally mad that I did sales activity on the last day of the quarter. I do sales activity every single day. So are you mad every day, or are you only mad when I hit my goals? And there are people who really do not want to see you thrive. That’s why it’s important to have a bulletproof mission.

My mission is more important than myself. My mission is so that you can build wealth with your business unapologetically. That’s why the name of my business is unapologetic wealth. So I’m not going to apologize. I’m not going to shrink. I’m not going to feel bad. I’m not going to be made fun of. I’m not going to be ridiculed.

I’m not going to be harassed. I’m not going to be talked down to. I’m not going to be belittled. I’m not going to be taunted. I’m not going to be teased. I’m going to be rich and you’re just going to deal with it. And the people who can’t deal with it can detach themselves as appropriate. I love that. And thank you for even saying that too, because I think that is something that women, entrepreneurs, everything is this.

And that was even something Risa, I was watching some of the, her videos afterwards and she was saying, this was actually a really big fear of mine. It was a really big fear to come on and share my story because I believe all the judgment that I was going to get. And then that’s definitely, she said, but my point in coming on and telling this was to be able to help other women see the red flags that I was not attuned to, that I like.

Even ignored. And she goes, and I just wanted to tell this story and I just like absolutely adored her. I loved watching her stuff. But that was one of the things she said, I’m not going to apologize for coming on and sharing my story and I’m not going to apologize for getting paid on an app now because.

Of the people who connected with me. She’s I’m not going to apologize for that. And I just loved it. I loved it. It was such a good case study to see all of the mindset drama around money come up from other people, because really at the end of the day, these, and even the people you’re just talking about who do screenshots, those people have.

It’s their money mindset. It’s their mindset about themselves. Cause projection perception is projection, right? They’re projecting that out into the world. And anytime I’ll just end on this note, because I think it’s perfect with mindset and money and everything. Anytime I start to feel some type of negative way about somebody else, I always ask myself, what is something that they have that I don’t have that’s triggering this thought?

Even if. Even if they’re like a terrible person, I always can find some shred of something in them that is pulling up some type of thought of limiting belief that I have about myself, right? I’ll give you a really great example. I went to an event probably two years ago, and I was actually helping behind the scenes.

And so I got to meet some very large, like I met Ed Milette got to be in the room with them and talk to them behind the stage. It was really awesome. And I’m like, oh, I’m like star struck right now with these amazing people and these kind people. And there was one person in particular that got on stage and a little bit of jealousy rose up because I was listening to their speech and I was like, this speech was shit.

This was awful. All these people are clapping for this person and they literally just I literally felt they just regurgitated every self help book out there over and over. There was nothing original about their thoughts. I was getting heated and angry of I don’t understand why all these people like love this person.

And then I had this moment of, okay, Ashley, what can you learn from this? And I said, I am jealous at the fact that they’re the one on the stage. And I had me and I’m not me. And I said, have I taken any action to be able to get on a stage like that? And I had a single drop. And I said, that is what, see, you’ve come to the point of self realization that changes lives.

That is it. Have I done anything? If the answer is no, then you don’t have room to be jealous. Now, you’ve been doing all the things you’ve been applying on stages. You’ve been applying to get on podcasts. You’ve been making your own platform. You held your own summit and you do your own Facebook lives and you partner with others and you ask to be on people’s podcast.

And every single person says no. And you have made a hundred asks. You have reason to bitch. You don’t meet people like that every day. Those people are far between because eventually with enough asks, someone will say, yes, that’s the key. So if you haven’t gotten a yes yet, you just haven’t made enough asks.

Most of us are waiting passively. On something to happen to us. My clients are going to choose me, right? I’m just going to put words on the internet and client attract. The God of client attraction is just gonna make that work for me. And it’s no, that’s not how any of this works. You got to put in the work.

And until you do, you’re going to get uneven results. If you have rollercoaster revenue, you’ve got inconsistent marketing. You’ve got inconsistent sales and inconsistent confidence. You show up some of the time. And when you do, it’s good. And then you don’t show up for long periods of time and your people don’t trust you.

You only show up when you need the money and you show up with your handout. If you had a friend like that, who barely showed up for you, who only showed up to ask for money, how would you treat that friend? Not well, but a lot of y’all are that kind of business owner. Because your mindset says, I’m not really good enough for this money.

I’m not really, I don’t know what I’m doing. If you really feel like the work you do isn’t important or you don’t know what you’re doing or you’re charging too much money, fix that before you decide I’m going to go and be this high ticket coach. That’s crazy. The amount of self 000 price tags is insane.

If I take 10, 000 from you, I am certain as hell that I can help you. I would never. Take that kind of money from you. And I’m wishy washy confused. I meet people, I have one client, two clients, but I’m too busy to sell busy doing what if you have clients, how much client work could you have, like I don’t get that, but women are taught to serve others first and put themselves last.

I do my sales activity. First thing in the morning, eight, eight 30, nine o’clock before any client calls before podcast, before any thing else. I put the mask on myself first. That is what we are not trained to do. Most of us do client work and then we do things for others. And then we go to the husband and the kids and then the house and by nine o’clock at night, you’re tapped out.

If you sold first, you did business development first. If you meditated, First, I do positive intelligence. If you did your intuition and your mindset work, your Reiki or your healing or your sage or your prayer first, and then you went out and took some action, you’d be the most confident person.

You’d be unstoppable because you build. Trust self trust by keeping promises to yourself. Most of y’all three day challenges, these seven day challenges, and y’all tell a bunch of lies for a week. Yes. I’m going to do outreach. Yes. I’m going to improve my copy. Yes. I’m going to make asks. You don’t do any of it.

And you wonder why you feel like crap. If I didn’t do any of the things that I told myself I was going to do, I would feel bad about myself too. So either don’t make the promise or don’t break the promise you choose. But I don’t lie to myself and say, I’m going to do stuff. I’m not going to do. I didn’t even lie and tell you I was going to get on the treadmill today.

Cause I have seven zoom calls today. So I’m not going to get on the treadmill, so I’m not even gonna set myself up for the disappointment that I’m going to feel because I didn’t, but what can I do? I can eat healthy meals. I can drink lots of water. I can have healthy snacks. That’s something I can do right here at my desk.

So stop telling yourself you’re going to make a change and not do that thing because you’re further cementing to your subconscious. Hey, this person can’t be trusted. The owner, me, your subconscious going, my owner can’t be trusting. She literally never does what she says she’s going to do. So there’s no point in me setting the wheels in motion for her to achieve this, because in two days, she’s going to have another thing.

Anyway, her coach is going to tell her to do something else ridiculous. And we’ll be running off in a whole nother direction. So I might as well just chill out for a couple of days and wait on the tide to shift. My brain knows business, my conscious mind and my subconscious mind are in lock step.

Towards the money that I deserve. They are always in tandem. And if they’re ever not in tandem, I get support around that upper limit so we can keep marching in the right direction. Yeah. And this is just point blank here. I asked you to come on my podcast. I literally DM’d you and said, Natalie, I’d love to have you on my podcast.

You want to come on? And that’s asking, right? And I was like, hell yeah. But you know what? Even this morning, this is a good thing for us to put out there. So me and Ashley had this schedule and her little got sick. So we had to reschedule and on the reschedule. She thought I had forgotten I was running late.

We had miscommunication. She sent an email that was like, Hey, sorry, we missed you. Let’s reschedule. And I’m like, hell no, I’m prepared. Let’s do it anyway. So a lot of times people will sell themselves the first time, but did they resell themselves? I rebooked because I wanted to be on your podcast. I sent an email back because I wanted to be on your podcast.

Sometimes we were too easily discouraged and we would have let that one time you’re a little being sick. Oh she don’t really want me on the podcast anyway. I guess it wasn’t meant to be. Maybe I just forget about it. A lot of people wouldn’t have rescheduled because they forgot or they were too busy.

They didn’t make it a priority. I make visibility a priority. I want people to hear my voice. So I’m honored when people invite me on their podcast, I make the effort to get on podcasts and be a thought leader. I make the effort. So if you aren’t getting the result that you want, be honest. Are you making a concerted.

Effort to that thing. Or is it one of those, oh, it would be nice if I was on more podcasts because that’s not a goal. It would be nice if I weighed 50 pounds less, but that’s not going to happen until I eat better and exercise. Don’t those are the reality. I’m going to have to take consistent, specific action, not just haphazard.

When I feel like it action, consistent, specific action. Yeah, totally agree. One last thing I’ll add to that too is I’ll say even for you, a lot of the times if I’ve I obviously I have a podcast so I’ve obviously had either been on other people’s I’ve been on mine. I’ve had few people be like, Hey, I need to reschedule.

And then I’m like, okay, great. I’ve had to like, follow up with them to say, Hey, I’m being on my podcast. And I didn’t have to do that with you at all. You were just like, I’ll reschedule whatever. And I think that just, first of all, that’s awesome. Thank you so much. Cause that’s, but it’s also like just a.

a testament to having this very confident and strong mindset. And it shows why you are successful in business because you take business seriously, right? I think earlier, just to circle all the way back to something you said in the beginning of like women start their businesses, blah, blah, blah. I don’t remember exactly what you said, but there was a couple of things in there, but One of the thoughts I had was sometimes I’ve seen people where they’re like, Oh, I’m starting a business because I just want to make extra money, but that business like actually never, ever goes, takes off because their intention of doing it is coming from a place of scarcity to begin with.

They’re like, I don’t have enough money. I need to make money. I just, I heard this was an easy way to make money and I’m like, there’s nothing easy about it. There’s not they set themselves up as freelancers. My intention was to make six figures my first year. And if that didn’t happen, then we were going to dissolve the business.

Yes. To me, it was only going to be worth it. If this business could pay me more than my job, if the business couldn’t pay more than my job, then I would just keep my job. Cause it’s easier. So I had a very lofty goal from the onset. And I think that’s why we hit it. I think if I had gone into with the mindset of, I just need an extra 200 bucks for groceries.

Then I think that’s what I would have gotten. I think that what I believe and what to me made it worth it drove the revenue in the business because my brain knew, Hey, this business has to perform year one. Or she’s done. We got one shot. Cause Natalie is, I’m not long suffering. I’m fair weather. That’s surprising for people.

People think I’m really resilient. I’m not, I’m super bratty and I’m used to things going my way. My mom, litters me with attention. She thinks I’m perfect. She thinks I’m a genius. She never cursed at me or talked down to me as a child. My, my family dotes on me. I’m the favorite. I’m the baby.

I’m the only girl I have years and years of you are amazing and fantastic and perfect. Okay. So when things are hard, I don’t do them because I don’t like that and I’m gifted. So why do I have to do things that are hard? So if this business was not going to make money, sayonara. I have no grace for an under earning business.

I’m sorry. I refuse to be one of those people in business for four years that didn’t pay themselves for four years. I, that seems like a fate worse than death. That feels like childbirth to me. That’s not something I can put my brain around, like how much work I’m doing to not pay myself.

That is, Like mind boggling. And when I meet people who are working super hard and aren’t paying themselves, I’m like, how long are you going to do this? Like how long are you going to get in? And if you’re doing a startup and you’re doing an IPO and you’re raising money, Uber just had its first profitable quarter Q3 of 2023.

Oh, wow. Really? Yeah, they’ve lost 13 billion dollars with a B and a billion is a thousand millions and a million is a thousand thousands. They lost thirteen thousand thousand thousands.

So yeah, but if you’re not building a business like that, you need to have some profit. Most people cannot go 13 years with no profit. Uber just was able to convince them. Lenders and funders over and over and over again to keep dumping money into an idea that would disrupt the taxicab industry.

Still not sure if they’ve actually accomplished that, but they burned through 13 billion trying. I’m not willing to do that. And women don’t have access to venture capital like men do. So we don’t even have that choice. If we wanted to burn through 13 billion of investor dollars, guess what? Ain’t no investor giving us 13 billion.

So it’s moot. We self fund our businesses. And if you sell fund, then yourself has to have funds. Yeah. It’s interesting. I I don’t even really know my reason of starting business. I like, if I think back, I don’t even know. I just think I’m just very rebellious and I hated being told what to do.

And I hated like being on somebody else’s schedule. And I was like, no, I don’t want to do that anymore. But I started my business when I was. Six months pregnant with my first daughter, and I was working at a dental office, and I had went to school for marketing, worked in corporate marketing, was like, this is for the birds, then I went back to school to be a dental assistant, was in dental assisting school, and then ended up getting a job right out of that, and I was working in the most amazing office.

I loved my boss. I didn’t work Fridays. By all means, I had a really great job, but I really missed the marketing. I was like, I am a creative soul at heart. I really want to be able to create and write and do all these things. And then I ended up starting a blog on a whim. And then I started getting partner deals with that blog because I was really good at SEO.

And I was writing about, I was, it was a wedding blog and I was writing about venues, like wedding venues and going there and taking pictures. Can I, put you guys on my blog and then. Google had my blog posts over their own websites because my SEO was so good, like starting to do so great.

And then, so then I started doing brand deals and like partnerships with them Hey, this is affiliates, blah, blah, blah. And then I had a friend who was a wedding coordinator. Anyways, all these things to say that I remember telling my husband and at the time, my husband, his job didn’t pay much either.

And His money mindset was all over the place, but he didn’t have a whatever we were just married. We’d only been married for maybe a year and a half and maybe 2 years at this point. And so I basically remember telling him, hey, I want to quit my full time job as a dental assistant. And I want to take this.

thing full time. And he was like, you have one year. Like he basically told me you have the same deadline. I had, it’s one year and if it works, but he did you the best favor, people who have spouses who enable them. To stay in non performing businesses are part of the problem. I’m not telling you don’t support your spouse.

I’m saying if your spouse’s business is losing money, robbing you of your wealth and lessening your social security, when you all are too old to work, it is your responsibility. To make that perform. I have a fiduciary responsibility to my household, to my spouse, to my parents, to my community, to the black culture at large for unapologetic wealth to be solvent.

If it can’t do that, it’s harming me and it has to close. There’s just no way around it. So it’s, we’re not. Helping people by allowing them to stay in businesses that have offers that are unsellable or don’t make sense brands that are irrelevant and unknown expenses that are insane and correlated to the revenue potential of the business that takes all of your stamina, all of your joy, all of your happiness.

There’s just no way there is no way and you’re not showing your spouse love by letting them stay in this business that is eating them alive. Now, are there businesses that have slow periods, slow cycles? Sure. If your partner’s business has one bad year, should you kick them out of their 10 year thing? No, but if it’s never made money, y’all need to make an assessment.

And I never made enough money to pay themselves. Even a nominal salary. They can’t even pay themselves 30 K a year, but they have enough to pay. They have enough to pay them. Listen to me. I had a woman who responded to an email of mine saying that if she hired another coach, her husband was going to divorce.

Her, but to send me the link to book a call anyway. Nope. Nope. Not my client. And I’m not going to put that stress on me as a coach for your financial decision. Your husband and already gave you the rules, ma’am. Why are you talking to me? He just doesn’t understand. And how much has the business lost?

It’s only lost like 150, 000. What? Oh my God. I had this one time, Mary, your husband is a saint. He is the nicest person that has ever lived because you are in saying, what could you do with 150 K in the stock market? I said, someone needs to be honest with you and tell you the truth that you’re ruining your retirement.

You’re in your forties. Enough is enough. Your time is not on your side from a, investment horizon standpoint. I’m sorry. This is not okay. And I, if you want to pursue it, you can, but I am absolutely not going to encourage you. I’m not going to take you as a client. I don’t want to have anything to do with it at all.

I had a coach one time I had actually, it was one of my clients. Who was also a coach and this was several years ago. And I remember bringing I did a call with them just to get to know them. Cause he was like, Oh my gosh, my wife was telling me about your messaging and like all this stuff. So anyways, we get on a call and he basically tells me, he’s yeah, I he was a brand new coach.

Let me just say, he was a brand new coach. He had worked in sales for corporate, but he was a brand new coach. And he was like, yeah, my offer is 70, 000 for three months. And I was like, you’ve never even coached. And then he told me the story of how him and his wife did separate because when he basically like six months prior, he had not signed a client yet, but six months prior, he paid his coach 70, 000 to teach him how to build his offer or whatever.

And they, and his wife. My client ended up separating from him for six months because of everything that had happened where he did not even consult with her and put them in a huge financial debt. And he was like telling me all these things and I’m like, what? And they had a child. They had a 2-year-old child.

I was like, I would, oh my God. I just could not, I just could not get over the fact that but it’s common. This story, I would be aghast, but this is the kind of story that I hear literally. All the time. And it’s one of those things where you just it’s a bad precedent. And this is why I’m against, I’ll say this in closing.

Cause we both have to go. I’ll say this. There’s the Ponzi scheme of coaching that says you can’t charge 70 K until you’ve paid 70. That’s incredibly convenient for the coach that’s charging 70 K isn’t it? Real, real good. Let me tell you who wins in that Ponzi scheme, the coach that is conveniently selling a 70, 000 program.

Just because you bought an expensive program doesn’t mean your program is more expensive. That’s like saying, Touring an expensive home means that now you can sell your house at a more expensive price. Listen, I’m loving these real estate. These real estate examples are like. I’ve seen, I’ve been there like you’ve never been exposed to the luxury of a high ticket program.

Just because I’ve been exposed to the luxury of a high ticket program doesn’t mean that I know how to instill that into my program just because I’ve been, and it’s especially harmful for women because we’re less likely to have the money to be able to pay the play. And if we internalize that our gift is not worth much money because we don’t have a lot to invest.

Say you started your business with 5, 000, but you’ve got grant writing experience with huge companies and you want to sell B2B grant writing services. For a hundred K, it’s worth it because you’ve been able to get million dollar grants for people before, but somebody’s telling you, you can’t charge high ticket because you don’t have a hundred K to spin or 50 K to spin or 20 K to spin.

So now you do what you lower your prices down to fit what you could afford. That hurts us on the flip side of the coin. I paid 10 K for coaching programs. They were crap. Didn’t teach me anything about anything. Didn’t make me a better coach. Didn’t make me a better program creator. Didn’t do anything, but take 10, 000 out of my pocket and have me fighting with the owner for a partial refund.

All it did was bring stress and strife into my life. But then Natalie, you’re the issue because you asked for a refund and you didn’t do it. You didn’t show up. The great thing, the great part is. It was such a bad program that over 50 percent of the people in it wanted refunds. So they didn’t even give me that.

So you weren’t, yeah, you weren’t even, it wasn’t just me. I set off an avalanche of refunds that later got me kicked out of the program. I’ll have to DM you about that one. Yes. I feel like this episode was like, let’s talk about money mindset. We’re like low key. Just, and that’s a very dangerous rhetoric that says.

That you become qualified to sell high ticket once you bought high ticket. That is a very dangerous rhetoric. It is not true and it is harmful to the people who believe it. That’s not to say that you don’t need any experience, but tit for tat. Coaching doesn’t make sense and you paying me 18, 000 for coaching doesn’t suddenly make you qualify to charge 18, 000.

If anything, it just means that you were gullible enough to fall into a marketing ploy. Yes, Natalie Bullen has done it. I’ve been personally victimized by this ploy. But it doesn’t make you better at the things. If you want to be a better coach, go be a better coach. Maybe get a coaching certification, training, teaching, tutoring, learning, advising, do things that make you better at coaching or better at marketing or better at selling.

Know what your end goal is. But if the only reason you’re buying this program is to qualify to sell it yourself, you are being duped. That is not a good enough reason to buy a program. You only buy a program because you need the result of the program and nobody’s USP is once you buy this program you will qualify to sell one like it.

I’ve actually never seen that as a USP in writing. So if you aren’t interested in the actual result of the program, don’t buy the program. Period. It’s funny though, because a lot of those programs don’t even have clear results. Oh how could they? They have to be able to, they have to be able to gaslight you in whatever when you get no result in the end.

After they spend six months. Running out the time clock on a charge back, pretending they’re going to give you your money back via email. Then they admit this program really was more about mindset and expansiveness. It’s really about being in the energy of the coach more so than achieving a specific outcome.

And so if you didn’t achieve a specific outcome, it’s because there’s really no outcome here. That it’s up for you, the learner, to decide on your own outcomes. And if you weren’t clear what you wanted in the program, then you probably shouldn’t have bought the program. But now that you’ve bought the program and participated in the program, and a year has elapsed, unfortunately, at this time, we’re unable to give you a refund.

But we do advise that you continue to do mindset work so that things like this don’t occur in the future. I remember one time a coach telling me what did you expect to get out of the program? And did you show up to get it?

I was like, what? Yeah, they were like what did you expect to get out of the program? And did you fully show up to get that? And I’m like, you have to be joking. What is this? But this is why you need to be doing check ins all along. I have a six month coaching program. We don’t wait till month six to ask, are you getting what you paid for?

We ask every month. So that way, if our clients are, if we have 10 people in the program and we get seven surveys back and five of them say, I’m lost, stuck, confused. We’re doing a hard stop. We’re having an extra call and we’re going to get everybody on pace. We are not going to wait till the end to find out, Oh, these people have been frustrated and confused for ages.

That just doesn’t make a lot of sense, same. But I think that’s also too, that’s also Just as women, bringing it back to women, we have our voices have been silenced for so long, right? We should be seen and not heard. We’re told as children. And so it’s sometimes we don’t want to speak up when things aren’t going right, because we don’t want to be shamed.

Or we also don’t want to feel like we’re the only one, like everybody else is getting it. Like, why am I not getting it type thing? But then I think that, but I also think on the flip side, it is yeah. Us as the coach, as the service provider, to be able to give them the opportunity to give feedback in a safe environment.

If we’re not building safety for them to be able to feel like they can speak up and say that. Because I know, I’ve worked with a lot of coaches where if I were to give some type of negative feedback, I would get berated. Like I already know they would immediately turn it around on me. I’ve been in programs like that before, but that’s a whole different conversation.

I have not, thankfully. That sucks though. That’s not okay. I’m also like a motor mouth. So I’m going to talk about shit regardless. Just saying. I think that’s why I love you. Cause I see you online and I’m like, I can talk to this girl forever. I’m going to say the thing that nobody else wants to say.

And the good thing is because I’ve been labeled a loud mouth. No one is surprised anymore. Yeah. It’s funny. Cause I’m a loud mouth like offline, but I’ve been slowly bringing that online because I’m like, okay, I’m ready to ruffle some feathers. with some people because I think that the feathers need to be ruffled because I’m tired of seeing the same things happen and you know whatever but that’s a whole different conversation but I know we both have to jump and this was such an amazing conversation.

I could talk to you all day. Thank you so much for coming on. Can you just tell how, can you just tell everyone how they can connect with you, where they can find you all that good stuff. Yes, you can follow me on Instagram at unapologetic wealth. On Facebook, I’m the only Natalie Bullen, trust me.

Or you can go to my website, unapologeticwealth. com and you can keep up with all my shenanigans there. She has a lot of shenanigans and they’re really fun, so definitely check it out. I do. I love my shenanigans. Yeah, it’s really, it’s People go why are you on social media so much? I’m like, have you seen it?

It’s like a watering hole. It’s like the most fun page on the internet. It’s so funny. It’s the most valuable fun page on the internet. I just proved the myth that you have to post gossip and fight videos and low value, shit posting to get Or inspirational. Oh, I’m so sick of that. Yeah, I don’t.

That’s weird. You are. Natalie, you are enough. Okay. If no one has told you today, the thing, the inspirational thing is weird to me. I’m not saying I don’t want to inspire people, but I’m not a church. It’s empty. It’s empty. It does. It’s empty. It’s put God first. It’s okay, great. How do I do that in the practicality in my business?

What does that look like? Cause I’m that kind of person. If you give me like a platitude, I don’t know what to do with it. You need nuance very similar to me. I’m one of those people. So if you can’t give me some specifics of what, Putting God first in my business looks like then I’m just going to say a prayer and then do what I had been doing.

Like you have to give me just give me an example, like context. And it’s interesting because I think you and I both know that because we’re messaging strategists in the subconscious brain literally speaks the language of metaphors and analogy. It speaks in pictures, right? But yes. Okay.

We’re done. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I’ll have to have you back another time and we can just keep on talking. Yeah, we’ll talk about wealth next time. We’ll talk about wealth next time, . Okay. Alright. Thank you guys so much. We’ll see you on the next episode. Bye.